Comments on: Bad code is good for you? http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/ Dagfinn Reiersøl on PHP, agile development, Ruby and other addictive substances Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:52:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: keyur patel http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-796 keyur patel Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:33:16 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-796 most important requirement of any code or piece of software is to perform a task or set of tasks if the code is performing / doing the assigned task successfully, then coding practice is seen next bad code can harmful, but no. 1 priority is functionality most important requirement of any code or piece of software is to perform a task or set of tasks

if the code is performing / doing the assigned task successfully, then coding practice is seen next

bad code can harmful, but no. 1 priority is functionality

]]> By: Chris Renner http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-700 Chris Renner Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:45:27 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-700 @ Maracas. I'm pretty sure nobody ever intends to write bad code, myself included. I think the #1 spec for any job should be "does it deliver the functionality the customer wanted?" The elegance of the solution is secondary to actually achieving the desired outcome. We have the luxury of then going back and making the code prettier later as we learn better ways of doing things. I think bad code is a greater phenomenon among us solo developers. Folks working in teams probably have a lot more processes in place to mitigate code that doesn't fit their agreed upon standards. In the end, much of what makes code "bad" is subjective, and we're only talking about this because a group of seasoned PHP developers have gotten together (albeit not formally around a table) and over time decided what "good" code is. Ultimately, "good" code is just a suggestion, and though I have no beef with most of it, I do reserve the prerogative to do things my own way when I disagree with the accepted standards. @ Maracas. I’m pretty sure nobody ever intends to write bad code, myself included. I think the #1 spec for any job should be “does it deliver the functionality the customer wanted?” The elegance of the solution is secondary to actually achieving the desired outcome. We have the luxury of then going back and making the code prettier later as we learn better ways of doing things.

I think bad code is a greater phenomenon among us solo developers. Folks working in teams probably have a lot more processes in place to mitigate code that doesn’t fit their agreed upon standards.

In the end, much of what makes code “bad” is subjective, and we’re only talking about this because a group of seasoned PHP developers have gotten together (albeit not formally around a table) and over time decided what “good” code is.

Ultimately, “good” code is just a suggestion, and though I have no beef with most of it, I do reserve the prerogative to do things my own way when I disagree with the accepted standards.

]]> By: Maracas http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-699 Maracas Thu, 01 Oct 2009 07:51:51 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-699 Hi Chris, I've been programming PHP for a couple of years. My bad code isn't intentional, but without being able to afford certain software, it's the only way I can do certain things. Maybe it isn't even that bad anyway, no one has ever really looked at it to tell me. I feel if it does the job quickly enough then it's alright by me, and my users will never know. Hi Chris, I’ve been programming PHP for a couple of years. My bad code isn’t intentional, but without being able to afford certain software, it’s the only way I can do certain things. Maybe it isn’t even that bad anyway, no one has ever really looked at it to tell me. I feel if it does the job quickly enough then it’s alright by me, and my users will never know.

]]> By: Scott Radcliff http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-695 Scott Radcliff Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:32:53 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-695 Not only do I agree with the comments about bad code, I know developers become better by writing bad code. I can remember the days of bloated functions with several lines of code. Now look back and see that I should have pulled some of that code out and make a few separate functions instead of having one function perform several tasks. Without that painfully bloated function, I wouldn't see the value of a function perform one task. Not only do I agree with the comments about bad code, I know developers become better by writing bad code. I can remember the days of bloated functions with several lines of code. Now look back and see that I should have pulled some of that code out and make a few separate functions instead of having one function perform several tasks. Without that painfully bloated function, I wouldn’t see the value of a function perform one task.

]]> By: Andre Liem http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-689 Andre Liem Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:05:36 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-689 Interesting idea and definitely some truth to it. Of course the question is what is bad code? If bad code is like "hardcoding" in places where it shouldn't happen, and maybe some inefficient loops, calls to the DB, but if the overall architecture follows a good pattern and process then "bad code" is acceptable. You can eventually work on this later on when optimizations and refactoring is needed. On the other and, if by bad code you mean redundant coding, no particular patterns... I don't think this is ever good. I would take the approach that acceptable "bad code" is the kind that doesn't mean you have to do a complete rewrite if the application takes off, grows in size. If it limits growth because it's just hard to change and understand, that's bad code that I wouldn't want :). nice article btw! Interesting idea and definitely some truth to it. Of course the question is what is bad code?

If bad code is like “hardcoding” in places where it shouldn’t happen, and maybe some inefficient loops, calls to the DB, but if the overall architecture follows a good pattern and process then “bad code” is acceptable. You can eventually work on this later on when optimizations and refactoring is needed.

On the other and, if by bad code you mean redundant coding, no particular patterns… I don’t think this is ever good.

I would take the approach that acceptable “bad code” is the kind that doesn’t mean you have to do a complete rewrite if the application takes off, grows in size. If it limits growth because it’s just hard to change and understand, that’s bad code that I wouldn’t want :) .

nice article btw!

]]> By: Chris Renner http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-687 Chris Renner Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:01:22 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-687 @ Rois, i have had exactly the same experiences. I'm now going back and refactoring one of my earlier spaghetti-code applications and trying to find even better (and hopefully cleaner) ways to do things. @ Marcas, I'm pretty sure my stuff would be considered ugly by many of the thought leaders in the PHP field, but its light years beyond where I started. There's so much space between newb and expert, I'm not sure any of us really get to the end of the journey. @ Rois, i have had exactly the same experiences. I’m now going back and refactoring one of my earlier spaghetti-code applications and trying to find even better (and hopefully cleaner) ways to do things.

@ Marcas, I’m pretty sure my stuff would be considered ugly by many of the thought leaders in the PHP field, but its light years beyond where I started. There’s so much space between newb and expert, I’m not sure any of us really get to the end of the journey.

]]> By: Rois Cannon http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-684 Rois Cannon Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:08:24 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-684 I'd have to agree that of coarse clean code and standards should be an important goal for every programmer. BUT just as important is encouraging coders to take a chance and be creative. Try something new but realize that there is always a better way and don't stop learning how to be better at what you love to do. I've been coding for quite a few years now and even though I know my early work is spaghetti it stirred my creative juices and is still being used quite a bit 6 years after I originally started writing it. I jumped in and made it work however I could. When you create something useful that people actually use every day it's encouraging. I'm learning new stuff everyday. Having to maintain my own application is what spurred me on to be a better coder. Encourage better coding practices by mentoring and encouraging others in your language of choice. I’d have to agree that of coarse clean code and standards should be an important goal for every programmer. BUT just as important is encouraging coders to take a chance and be creative. Try something new but realize that there is always a better way and don’t stop learning how to be better at what you love to do. I’ve been coding for quite a few years now and even though I know my early work is spaghetti it stirred my creative juices and is still being used quite a bit 6 years after I originally started writing it. I jumped in and made it work however I could. When you create something useful that people actually use every day it’s encouraging. I’m learning new stuff everyday. Having to maintain my own application is what spurred me on to be a better coder. Encourage better coding practices by mentoring and encouraging others in your language of choice.

]]> By: Maracas http://blog.agilephp.com/2009/09/28/bad-code-is-good-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-681 Maracas Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:48 +0000 http://blog.agilephp.com/?p=1630#comment-681 My approach to PHP is often ugly I'm sure, glad to know I am still welcome though :) My approach to PHP is often ugly I’m sure, glad to know I am still welcome though :)

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